Swami Shivapadananda

Real and fake trances

SWAMI SHIVAPADANANDA

[2nd President and Spiritual Head: the Ramakrishna Centre of South Africa]

[now a Centre of the international Ramakrishna Math and Ramakrishna Mission]

DAILY READINGS

Transcribed from the recordings made by Mother Radha

Day 1048

 

Swamiji responding to a question about people getting into trance states:

Your own mind buried in God is called samadhi [spiritual superconsciousness]. Otherwise with the other states, you are not transcending, you are binding yourself. You may still call that a trance - in this, that others transcend their barriers and enter you, limit you. Like a departed soul – it can enter you and control you. And pretend to be a higher kind of an evolved soul and take you on to the wrong path. It controls your mind. Just as a man hypnotizes someone – he controls them. Like that, if you give it a chance, through that trance, that departed soul or some other departed spirit actually hypnotizes you into its control.

You see, when you hypnotize somebody, part of their brain isn't working. That's what 'hypnotize' means. Like if you take drugs and see visions. Part of your brain is actually dwarfed [not functioning normally].

Devotee: Is it the actual brain or the mind, Papa?

Swamiji: It has an effect on both, son - on the brain and that abstract that you call mind.It will affect both. That's why these drug addicts go haywire.

Devotee: It's blanking out circuits?

Swamiji: Yes, 100%. So therefore one should not play with this trance business. I know of many people where with one look you can tell that this is a departed soul [manifesting] but he's telling you he's Kali or Durga and Bandi. But then you will be laughing to yourself.

Devotee: How can you detect this Swamiji? By their reactions, or…

Swamiji: You see son, when a doctor looks at you he knows exactly what the symptoms mean. So if a spiritual man looks - on a vibration level – he'll know.

Devotee: But a layman can't see it, Swamiji?

Swamiji: Hmm, a layman – sometimes inside of him the doubt comes and that God inside is telling him, "watch it". He can't see but God sees for him. You understand what I mean?

One yogi, very wonderfully he told me in India, he said, "don't think that when these householders [lay devotees] come that they are fools. The may be fools but God inside them is telling them, "look out!" [Swamiji chuckling] So watch it. He said, "you mustn't think that they are lying – there's something true in them saying, "hey, look out". Because they are so sincere to their deity [ishta deva] and the deity somehow makes them aware. But they don't know the deity is letting them know. You understand what I mean?

You see, I believe, in my mind and I know in my heart that if it's a real trance, it'll change your inner nature. If Hanumanji had to come on me, the real Hanuman [the great devotee of Lord Rama], then when that Hanumanji leaves me, I can't be doing evil. So the very fact that I'm still doing evil …surely…you find a man getting into a trance and all that hullabaloo, yet he's stealing, telling lies…that's where your sadhana [spiritual practice] is judged. You must watch. If you're really doing sadhana, your mind will start leaving these vices. Because it's hearing God's voice. So, if a man is getting into trances and still doing evil, it's not the real one, that. If you're doing your sadhana you don't have to worry, because your sadhana will take care of it. It's like saying that one man is darkness and you are light. What must you fear from darkness? Because no sooner it comes to you, it'll disappear. If you ask the sun, "you know what darkness is?" the sun will say, "what are you talking about? It's not in my vocabulary." [Swamiji chuckling merrily] That's one thing the sun is ignorant about. So, is your trance question is answered?

Why some people jump about and so on, that too you see, they're actually concentrating on that kind of a deity. "Come and destroy my enemies," and all that. So if they've got into the mood, they carry on like that. If you're thinking of murdering and smoking ganja [marijuana] – if you smoke it – you'll find you want to murder. If you want to sit peacefully and smoke the same ganja you'll sit down peacefully.

1) Care should be taken by the reader to understand and take Swamiji's words in these postings, in context. Every teaching or instruction that he gave was specific to the people who were with Swamiji at the time. 

2) Mouse-over the words highlighted in red in the posting for further explanation or links.

There are currently available, 150 different CDs or DVDs with mp3 files, of Swamiji speaking. Please email timhoare@webmail.co.za to order. 

For more about the Holy Trinity, and also the founding Swamis of the Ramakrishna Centre of South Africa, please mouse over their names below:

Sri Ramakrishna    Sri Sarada Devi     Swami Vivekananda  

Swami Nischalananda  Swami Shivapadananda 

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna - read online

Reference websites - please mouse over the name and click to connect:

Ramakrishna Math and Mission    Ramakrishna Centre of South Africa    Ramakrishna Dham

Different paths for monastic and lay devotees

SWAMI SHIVAPADANANDA

[2nd President and Spiritual Head: the Ramakrishna Centre of South Africa]

[now a Centre of the international Ramakrishna Math and Ramakrishna Mission]

DAILY READINGS

Transcribed from the recordings made by Mother Radha

Day 1047

 

You must know that you are the soul. So separate the body from the soul [Atman]. You must know that you are the soul. But you won't know what the soul is – you will be the soul. This is another important thing. How to do it? Keep thinking, "I am not the body. Surely I can't be the body." Do everything. For years I used to think, "ah the tongue is tasting, the eyes are looking…let them look." Straight away there was this separation. There's no ritual about it, no hawan [ritual fire sacrifice], no flowers, nothing. No adoration, no prostration…just separate yourself. Walk like a zombie – separate. Carry on, carry on, daily. This one will disappear.

But there is a danger in the period where you will become fearful. That is the period where you must watch. Because as you start separating your soul from your body there are subtle things [samskaras,impressions] in your past lives which your mind will find difficult to let go. Your mind will find it very difficult to let go. Sheer will – your Self must become the will. You'll say, "uh-uh, that's maya [God power of illusion/delusion], still." Keep doing that

Householders [lay devotees] can't do it. That's why if you tell the householders they look down upon the swamis [Hindu monks, renunciates]. They say, "the swamis look down on the householders". No, we worship them as God manifested. You know what…if he [the householder] starts saying, "I am not the body," how is he going to love [take care of] his wife? How's he going to love his children? How is he going to do it? So the best way for the householder is to say, "well, there's a God manifested, I am his servant." You don't say," I am not the body," in this case, you say, "that is the spirit".

There, the [Christian] Bible principles apply very well. "What you think, you become." If you think that is the spirit, naturally, the spirit level [stage] will be reached here. You see, that's the 'principle' response. Worship God with faith and if you're a householder, follow your dharma [spiritual and life path], worship God with all love, and serve his children. If you are his child, whose children are all the others?

There are three steps. God the person, God the cosmic and then God the Absolute [Brahman]. God the person, take one like Christ, Ramakrishna, Guru Govind [Singh] or any one – give it the highest attributes. Then you will find that no, not only this, it's the whole universe – it's energy – it's him. Above energy what is it? Above that we don't know. Because you melt [merge] into it. You won't know it. You can experience it. 'You won't know', means you won't know with your mind.

To me, it's like a man goes to take a dip [swim]. He starts to drown – he loses consciousness. Somehow someone pulls him out, revives him and he remembers, "hey I went there, I don't know how deep it was - and what depth you pulled me out from, I don't know." But he remembers how he was drowning. In this case, you will remember that consciousness but you can't express it. This is the difference. There that fellow doesn't remember but [back] here, he remembers but he can't express it, no matter what vocabulary he uses – he can't express it. But the only thing he can say about it, is "no, not that…not that." Then other people think you're mad because they don't know why you're saying, "not that". There is nothing to compare it to. What are you going to say? This world is only expressed in terms of comparison. That why we say it is 'relative'. THAT is not related – it's unrelated. I'm going to relate it to what? And in that state, you don't care what man calls you. Whether he calls you ignorant, knowledgeable, he may call you a liar, it doesn't matter. Nothing will trouble you. Because that poor fellow wants to understand it from his level but you can't take this thing to that level. The only way to do it, is that person has to come to this level.

Like when they asked Christ, "do you know what the truth is?" he said, "yes". They said, "what is the truth?" Then they said he was a fool - but he was already in samadhi [spiritual superconsciousness] – what is he going to tell them? It was like the nectar and he had become one.

So the householder must worship a deity. At the same time take it to universal level or meditate on the absolute….but he can't stay there all the time. Because it [his role] will pull him back. Child will pull him, wife will pull him and the husband [if it's the wife doing the practice] will pull her, relatives will pull. It may sound now as if no, it can't be like that. I can't think of him or me as a disciple. Because no sooner you think of disciple, it will pull you down. That's why they say, "Brahman, Brahman, Brahman". Myself, I stop this. When the bhakta [devotee] prostrates, he's prostrating to God. There's no one else to prostrate to. Somehow in dream, you realise you're dreaming. When you're prostrating you know you're not prostrating to that image in front of you, it's to that which is behind the form, which is your [higher] Self. That's the difference – nothing else. You mustn't imitate. One shouldn't think, "oh, that is higher, I must go with the higher". Take it step by?...step.

1) Care should be taken by the reader to understand and take Swamiji's words in these postings, in context. Every teaching or instruction that he gave was specific to the people who were with Swamiji at the time. 

2) Mouse-over the words highlighted in red in the posting for further explanation or links.

There are currently available, 150 different CDs or DVDs with mp3 files, of Swamiji speaking. Please email timhoare@webmail.co.za to order. 

For more about the Holy Trinity, and also the founding Swamis of the Ramakrishna Centre of South Africa, please mouse over their names below:

Sri Ramakrishna    Sri Sarada Devi     Swami Vivekananda  

Swami Nischalananda  Swami Shivapadananda 

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna - read online

Reference websites - please mouse over the name and click to connect:

Ramakrishna Math and Mission    Ramakrishna Centre of South Africa    Ramakrishna Dham

Seek within – not without

 

SWAMI SHIVAPADANANDA

[2nd President and Spiritual Head: the Ramakrishna Centre of South Africa]

[now a Centre of the international Ramakrishna Math and Ramakrishna Mission]

DAILY READINGS

Transcribed from the recordings made by Mother Radha

Day 1046

[Swamiji speaking softly and very intently] As you said in the Gujarati song, this world looks like a dark well. A well is a confined place. You haven't got the time to waste to walk about this well. If you really get like that (God-conscious) then where's the time for anything else? Can you tell me? Sincerely? Where's the time? Where is the time for something like that? If that spirit of the words gets inside you, you will be mad (for God). Isn't it so?

To create that madness, we're having satsang. That is the madness. And it's very, very…may I use a funny word? Because it is funny. It's 'the thing [God]' itself looking for 'the thing [God]'. [Swamiji chuckling]. The thing itself looking for the thing. If I didn't love you I wouldn't tell you that. You don't have to go out for this. This is just the opposite of going and seeking. It's not going there to Swamiji, to the altar…every time you reach out, you're missing the point. Stop reaching out. Stop?...reaching out. That is the maya [the divine power of illusion/delusion] – you're reaching out. You are so in the habit, it's become your nature [Swamiji laughs] to reach out. Stop reaching out. Just stop.

How can a drunken man – dead drunk – walk somewhere? Where can he go to? He's drunk. It's like this. [Swamiji begins to sing, "Om tat sat, Om tat sat, Om tat sat Om". [Meaning OM, all is that One].

1) Care should be taken by the reader to understand and take Swamiji's words in these postings, in context. Every teaching or instruction that he gave was specific to the people who were with Swamiji at the time. 

2) Mouse-over the words highlighted in red in the posting for further explanation or links.

There are currently available, 150 different CDs or DVDs with mp3 files, of Swamiji speaking. Please email timhoare@webmail.co.za to order. 

For more about the Holy Trinity, and also the founding Swamis of the Ramakrishna Centre of South Africa, please mouse over their names below:

Sri Ramakrishna    Sri Sarada Devi     Swami Vivekananda  

Swami Nischalananda  Swami Shivapadananda 

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna - read online

Reference websites - please mouse over the name and click to connect:

Ramakrishna Math and Mission    Ramakrishna Centre of South Africa    Ramakrishna Dham